Its not a "losing" situation for the Lions

[TBBishop]

If Suh is automatically going to net a team 5-8 wins in a season all by himself then all 32 teams better jump into that sweepstakes. I guess I need more of an explanation to understand how that works. The Lions havent really done squat with him so how does that change now? Why hasn't Watt been able to lead Houston to the promise land by himself?

You won't get a satisfactory explanation on how that works. Yes, Suh is irreplacable. No, there isn't one guy who you can plug in and bring what Suh brings. But obviously if you spend the $15-20 mil per season that you'd have to spend to bring him back wisely you can more than make up for him leaving. (Queue the Mayhew is an idiot posts)

 

[jdwills126]

I would much rather see a drafted RB than any FA RB on the market. Cheaper and less miles.

If the Lions end up with DB Maxwell, DT Paea, and Odrick for the price of Suh I think Detroit comes out of this OK. Or 3 FA of that type. You sink a huge amount into 1 guy and he turns into a bust....Albert Haynesworth, or gets injured then you hamstring the organization for years.

The one thing I am interested in and it's funny the number has not been leaked is what Detroit offered Suh.

 

[themuzzer]

What do you guys think about bringing in Vince Wilfork? Think he's done?

I think it would be a stop gap, add fairley too it and we would still be solid with a good draft. Then again, Vince just won a SB do those guys really try hard changing teams after that?

 

[jayfan]

What do you guys think about bringing in Vince Wilfork? Think he's done?

If we were running a 3-4, I'd be for bringing him in. Not sure he'd be effective in a 4-3.

 

[Microwahevo]

I don't think Spiller will be in play with the $$ he's seeking. He reportedly turned down a long-term deal from the Bills worth an average of $4.5 million a season.

Losing Suh would hurt, but you're absolutely right LionsTop that we'd be in great shape with the extra cap space. Suh is a beast and the best DT in the league, but anyone who thinks losing him will result in us losing 5 more games next year then we did last year, solely because Suh is gone, is an idiot. One player on a defense of 11 is not responsible for 5 wins all by himself, but I think sane people already understand that...

I think maybe Spiller turned down the Bills offer bc he doesn't want to stay in Buffalo. Look at how McCoy is already reacting.

I don't like Spiller as a potential Lion, but I can understand why he'd turn down the Bills.

 

[LionsWhyMe]

If we were running a 3-4, I'd be for bringing him in. Not sure he'd be effective in a 4-3.

The Patriots run a variety of different schemes with their defense.

 

[LionsWhyMe]

What do you guys think about bringing in Vince Wilfork? Think he's done?

If it's eating... he's always hungry. If the Lions were to resign Nick Fairley and/or young talent, it's the knowledge that he can bring to pass on which is a valuable asset in itself. But I doubt the Lions could sign him without over paying him to a kings ransom.

 

[Thruthefog]

I is a idiot.

 

[LionsWhyMe]

What?.. Patriots get what they want out of players and move on. It's not like there's nothing else left but knowledge. Vince Wilfork was coached by one of the great minds of defenses.

Belichick talks 4-3, 3-4 defense
Belichick talks 4-3, 3-4 defense - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

IMO......

Spiller = Definite no. draft much better option
Wilfork = definite no. draft/FA (both) better options
Hudson = no. center only, draft/FA (both) better options
Oakland C (not even going to try and spell it = no. Baffled here, no idea why a team that actually MUST spend big would let him go. There is a problem here. If they sign Hudson immediately I guess I can understand, otherwise fear keeps me away.
Ngata = no. Too old for me at such a high cost
Hardy = yes. I would at least get an idea of his cost here. I think teams are going to go way low due to his off field. Contract structure huge here. Offer 3yr, $28m with that third year voidable by him. $6m signing. $6m, $6m salary, with $10m salary in that voidable year. Your caps are $8, $8, $12m. IF he is the stud we hope he will void that third year. We would carry only a $2m dead hit if we lost him. If he sucks you cheaply cut him after only two seasons.
Fairley = yes. Very similar contract as suggested above only 3yr, $26m. For both guys with questions surrounding them they can be free agents again in a short time frame for even bigger pay days.

 

[tpaulus_2]

IMO......

Spiller = Definite no. draft much better option

Agreed. I like Spiller quite a bit, but sounds like his asking price is more than his production merits, imo.


Wilfork = definite no. draft/FA (both) better options

I'd take Wilfork for a moderate price. If he wants top-DT dollar, then I'd pass, but he's still very good and would be a great veteran presence on our defense. If Ngata is cut the pair of he and Wilfork would still come in way cheaper than Suh, and while old, they'd give us very little drop-off from Suh as a pair. Pipe dream, yes, but DTs can still be dominant in their mid-30's and these two have been some of the best in the game for a decade, and both have Super Bowl rings on their resumes, too...


Hudson = no. center only, draft/FA (both) better options

Sounds like he might want big dollars? If the price is right I'd love to have him, though. Move Swanson to LG and plug Hudson in a Center and our interior OL just got a whole lot better than last year.


Oakland C (not even going to try and spell it = no. Baffled here, no idea why a team that actually MUST spend big would let him go. There is a problem here. If they sign Hudson immediately I guess I can understand, otherwise fear keeps me away.

Something is fishy there. By all accounts he's been a fine you o-lineman, but the cash-flush Raiders have yet to lock him up. Then again these are the same dumbasses who let Veldheer leave for Arizona last offseason, so, apparently keeping the quality young o-linemen they draft isn't a priority. Same boat as Hudson for me- I'd be satisfied with him as the future at the center position, pending his price tag.


Ngata = no. Too old for me at such a high cost

See above w/ Wilfork. All about the cost for me. Great player if his price is acceptable.


Hardy = yes. I would at least get an idea of his cost here. I think teams are going to go way low due to his off field. Contract structure huge here. Offer 3yr, $28m with that third year voidable by him. $6m signing. $6m, $6m salary, with $10m salary in that voidable year. Your caps are $8, $8, $12m. IF he is the stud we hope he will void that third year. We would carry only a $2m dead hit if we lost him. If he sucks you cheaply cut him after only two seasons.

I'm not opposed to Hardy, but where does he play for us? He's not going to leapfrog Ziggy, and the opposite DE (Jason Jones, at the moment) is asked to two-gap damn near every play to free up the inside rush. Hardy is more of a Ziggy and less of a Jones for sure. He'd be a great addition to the pass rush, but I don't think he'd be an every-down player. He's definitely got the talent, though, and should be a good value given his off-field transgressions.


Fairley = yes. Very similar contract as suggested above only 3yr, $26m. For both guys with questions surrounding them they can be free agents again in a short time frame for even bigger pay days.
If Suh does leave then pairing Fairley with Ngata or Wilfork would be the next best option, imo. We'd still have two of the ten best DTs in the middle of our defense. That's no Suh, but it's better than whatever else is available. We could still draft a kid early and work him in if we sign an old vet, too...

 

[Rollingthndr]

I don't think Spiller will be in play with the $$ he's seeking. He reportedly turned down a long-term deal from the Bills worth an average of $4.5 million a season.

Losing Suh would hurt, but you're absolutely right LionsTop that we'd be in great shape with the extra cap space. Suh is a beast and the best DT in the league, but anyone who thinks losing him will result in us losing 5 more games next year then we did last year, solely because Suh is gone, is an idiot. One player on a defense of 11 is not responsible for 5 wins all by himself, but I think sane people already understand that...

Yeah, but there was a lot of lucky breaks the Lions caught last year. Biggest example was the Atlanta game.

 

[gandydancer]

Yeah, but there was a lot of lucky breaks the Lions caught last year. Biggest example was the Atlanta game.

Good example of how Suh can not really be counted against a win and loss. Throw in the Bills game and in one season two games affected by a kicker and a penalty. Not Suh...

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Yeah, but there was a lot of lucky breaks the Lions caught last year. Biggest example was the Atlanta game.

yep ! almost reminiscent of 2011 comeback wins, minus that years record offense output

 

[Old Lion]

Agree with you guyz on Wiz. Not sure why a team flush with cash refuses to sign one of he best centers in the league. Maybe Oakland is really just that stupid. I do not think we are in the market for a starting center. Looking for a Guard is my bet for O-line.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Agree with you guyz on Wiz. Not sure why a team flush with cash refuses to sign one of he best centers in the league. Maybe Oakland is really just that stupid. I do not think we are in the market for a starting center. Looking for a Guard is my bet for O-line.

With Swanson having the ability to play both guard and center that really opens up our options, imo. Plus, any FA center we're looking at can generally play guard as well or better than they play center, as it's a similar physical skill-set, but a bit easier from a assignment standpoint...

 

[jayfan]

The Patriots run a variety of different schemes with their defense.

Their base is a 3-4, and Wilfork is a 3-4 nose tackle. He's a space-eater who stuffs the line of scrimmage and serves as a blocker for attacking linebackers. At his age and weight, he's not going to do you much good if you ask him to rush, pursue, stunt, move around....

 

[gandydancer]

With Swanson having the ability to play both guard and center that really opens up our options, imo. Plus, any FA center we're looking at can generally play guard as well or better than they play center, as it's a similar physical skill-set, but a bit easier from a assignment standpoint...

Agree
Our LT spot is not broke. Why fix it this year? Swanson and new guy inside will be a upgrade instantly IMO. I only see one addition of OL being priority. Later round pick to replace Reynolds is ideal. Roll with Lucas and Waddle at RT

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Agree
Our LT spot is not broke. Why fix it this year? Swanson and new guy inside will be a upgrade instantly IMO. I only see one addition of OL being priority. Later round pick to replace Reynolds is ideal. Roll with Lucas and Waddle at RT

won't be that late of a pick.... use a mirror TEPRAM

 

[jdwills126]

Wiz at center and Swanson at guard is an upgrade IMO.

Not sure what Wiz problem is but it would be worth getting him in for a physical and interview....due diligence.

As for Fairley... I have been going back and forth about signing him. The Fairly of the first 8 games last season would be a hell yes! The Fairley of the previous few years would be hell no! Next to the best DT in the NFL he was practically invisible. When any other DT would have loved never having to worry about a double team and cleaning up in stats, he was on the back of a milk carton.

Maybe it was Austin's scheme best case or maybe it was a contract year, worst case. The Lions need to make sure which guy they are getting and then not over pay.