Why are the Pirates being so quiet?

thecrow124 · 01-24-2012, 12:31 PM

The GM and owner have said they have money to spend. There are talented players still on the market, that have fallen into the discount category and into our price range. So why haven't we at least heard a rumor that we are talking with their agent, or the player themself?

Namely I am talking about Edwin Jackson. The guy is young enough that we could sign him to the 5 years he wants for about 55 million, well within the range he is worth, and still not hurt us in the long run.

I just think we should be out there doing something, especially with the prices for these players dropping to the range they seem to have dropped.

P.S. I STILL think we should make a legit run at Fielder, pitchers you can find every year, hitters, not so much.

Burgh Sports Rule · 01-24-2012, 04:01 PM

Crow, Fielder is now officially off the market. He signed a 9yr 214M deal with the Tigers.

Per ESPN.

That deal is Ridiculous! The only reason I believe it happened for him, was because Victor Martinez is out for the yr with a torn ACL. The Tigers could regret that deal Big Time in 3 to 4 yrs? Boras wins again. (Yay!, Sarcasm)

As to your other point. I too would like the Bucs to make a significant move or two, to round out the team. I just am starting to think that this organization refuses to spend money. Neal, Frank & Bob, I think anyway, feel that they can do it all with Draft Pks.

Neal thinks, IMO, that when the Draft Pks get to Pittsburgh that they will all be Golden & that that, is when we will finally, Win like Magic.

Sadly, I think that what this management team does not realize is that, until the Draft Pks get here, that we have an MLB team to worry about? Which, Neal clearly is not. (Worried about) The Pirates strategy is to completely Suck until all Neal's pks arrive.

Even if, (Big If?) the Lion's share of the Draft Pks do work out? The Pirates I feel, are still going to have to Significantly upgrade the MLB payroll & Roster to help these kids out & supplement what the young guys are going to give us, production wise, in order for us to compete & eventually become a Championship contender.

Sadly, the spending money on the MLB Product part of things, is something that this management team has, as yet, never been willing to do.

Until the Pirates show they are willing to spend "Some" money, no matter how many times we draft high, I don't think that we will win a Championship.

Very sad thoughts.

Burgh.

element1286 · 01-24-2012, 07:53 PM

Fielder was always going to get that mega-deal, the best players, and Boras clients always do.

As for Jackson, I don't think anyone of his caliber should ever be signed for 5 years, to average. Wouldn't mind him for three years, which means the Pirates won't get him.

Illinest · 01-24-2012, 09:36 PM

I don't know what I think about Jackson. If we somehow signed him I probably wouldn't know what to say. Of course there are dollar values that would make me say "good" or "bad" but I can't really understand why he seems to have next to zero interest.

Darkstone42 · 01-24-2012, 10:26 PM

I don't think the Tigers are going to like the contract they gave Fielder very much a few years down the line...

I wouldn't mind seeing the Pirates go after Jackson, though.

magnumo · 01-25-2012, 09:03 AM

According to both Kovacevic and Langosch, the Pirates are "being so quiet" because they're satisfied with the current roster, and/or see no cost/value benefit in adding further.

My opinion: Looking at roster changes in aggregate, the team clearly has moved sideways (certainly no significant improvement). Thus, they're betting on improvement from the core of young holdovers (Alvarez, Tabata, Presley, McCutchen, Walker)..... and they're betting on a healthy Bedard and a rotation which will pitch like the first half of 2011 rather than the second half.

I hope they're right, but fear that they're suffering from too much wishful thinking. At any rate, the performance of the pitching staff, especially the starting rotation, will determine how the 2012 season plays out for the Pirates.

I have no doubt that the team would benefit from adding another reliable starting pitcher and another reliable bat. But apparently NH doesn't see things that way, or he has decided that none of the remaining candidates are worth what it would take to sign them.

thecrow124 · 01-25-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnumo

According to both Kovacevic and Langosch, the Pirates are "being so quiet" because they're satisfied with the current roster, and/or see no cost/value benefit in adding further.

My opinion: Looking at roster changes in aggregate, the team clearly has moved sideways (certainly no significant improvement). Thus, they're betting on improvement from the core of young holdovers (Alvarez, Tabata, Presley, McCutchen, Walker)..... and they're betting on a healthy Bedard and a rotation which will pitch like the first half of 2011 rather than the second half.

I hope they're right, but fear that they're suffering from too much wishful thinking. At any rate, the performance of the pitching staff, especially the starting rotation, will determine how the 2012 season plays out for the Pirates.

I have no doubt that the team would benefit from adding another reliable starting pitcher and another reliable bat. But apparently NH doesn't see things that way, or he has decided that none of the remaining candidates are worth what it would take to sign them.

If this is truely the case, why isn't he looking into trades for young controllable upgrades? You have to think that with the amount of talent we have acquired in the minor leagues and the young guys on our major league roster we could make a move for a solid young player.

Well, I am officially becoming agitated, when does ST start?

magnumo · 01-25-2012, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecrow124

If this is truely the case, why isn't he looking into trades for young controllable upgrades? You have to think that with the amount of talent we have acquired in the minor leagues and the young guys on our major league roster we could make a move for a solid young player.

Well, I am officially becoming agitated, when does ST start?

Perhaps he is. I hope he is.

In regard to our minor league talent, NH may not have all that much to work with. Few advocate trading our top prospects (personally, I don't think we should)..... and most other organizations probably are not as high on our guys as Pirate fans are.

thedddd · 01-25-2012, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecrow124

If this is truely the case, why isn't he looking into trades for young controllable upgrades? You have to think that with the amount of talent we have acquired in the minor leagues and the young guys on our major league roster we could make a move for a solid young player.
Well, I am officially becoming agitated, when does ST start?

You would hope so. Not every pitcher they drafted will make it to the Pirates roster, while they are still deemed "prospects" they should move some before they flame out or are no longer prospects.

fordman84 · 01-25-2012, 12:29 PM

Word down here in texas, rumor at least, is that Texas has been in talks about Hanrahan. I know we wanted him badly at the last deadline, maybe just keeping lines open for next deadline. I think the story was that he got married here in Texas over the summer, or was here for a wedding or something or other. That came into play because it was at the same hotel that Fielder was staying at while meeting with the Rangers and the players at the Hanrahan wedding spotted Boras and Fielder and that is how it all got out.

element1286 · 01-25-2012, 09:28 PM

Rangers have a lot to give up as well.....would like to see the Pirates get some value for Hanrahan.

thedddd · 01-26-2012, 08:28 AM

Texas would be a great trading partner.

thedddd · 01-26-2012, 08:37 AM

As for Jackson I am not sure I get the love affair with him? Not saying anyone here has it just curious because I never seen much in him. Doesn't strikeout a lot, gives up a ton of hits, sorry for the price not sure.

thecrow124 · 01-26-2012, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedddd

As for Jackson I am not sure I get the love affair with him? Not saying anyone here has it just curious because I never seen much in him. Doesn't strikeout a lot, gives up a ton of hits, sorry for the price not sure.

Innings, pure and simple. Currently the Pirates have 0 candidates to pitch 200 innings this year. A team needs 1 minimum and preferably 3 that can throw that many innings, just to save the bullpen. A strong, well rested bullpen is improtant to prevent second half fades, just ask the 2011 Pirates. Even when Taillon and Cole make it up, we are still going to need innings eaters in the middle of the rotation.

He is also semi-effective, gives up hits, but also gets people out. At the asking price he would only need to be a little better than Karstens, and he is. However, he really only needs to be more effective than Correia/Lincoln to actually improve the roster.

Illinest · 01-26-2012, 10:33 AM

I've been trying to figure out Jackson ever since I made that other post and from what I can see it looks like the knock on him is that he 'doesn't know how to pitch'.
His stuff is good - he gets lots of swinging strikes - but he doesn't get a lot of strikeouts relative to what you'd expect.

I'd say that there's three different possibilities for him
1. That when his stuff starts to fade he'll lose all effectiveness
2. That he'll continue to have his stuff for the near future and put up relatively the same numbers
3. That he'll figure out how to use his stuff better and become the pitcher that he was projected to be.

I would also guess that the results that are seen as most likely are closer to the top of the list. From the Pirate's perspective we can't be the team that gets stuck with him for five years, but if Jackson will take a 3 year or a 1 year deal it seems like he'd be a good candidate for us.

thedddd · 01-26-2012, 03:48 PM

Thanks for the input. I am sorry I just don't get wow'ed by the guy or is a pitcher that is great outside being the best available.

Crow..I am with you anything is an improvement over the bottom of their rotation and just think players such as Jeff Francis and Chris Young (not sure if finalized but with the Mets) were had on minor league deals.

thedddd · 01-26-2012, 03:50 PM

As for Jackson I read he might take a one year NL deal to get a bigger contract next year. Now if this is his plan that would be great for the Pirates because come trade deadline time he could get a good return.

element1286 · 01-26-2012, 08:57 PM

IMO, I think they should go in with what they have in the starting rotation unless it is a dramatic upgrade. I'd rather see if Lincoln can pitch, than see if a retread like Francis or Young can still play.

Jackson 3 years 36 million would make sense, but wouldn't go much higher, Red Sox are in on him, wouldn't be surprised if he lands there for a reasonable deal.

thedddd · 01-27-2012, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by element1286

IMO, I think they should go in with what they have in the starting rotation unless it is a dramatic upgrade. I'd rather see if Lincoln can pitch, than see if a retread like Francis or Young can still play.
Jackson 3 years 36 million would make sense, but wouldn't go much higher, Red Sox are in on him, wouldn't be surprised if he lands there for a reasonable deal.

Without a doubt just saying if they wanted another pitcher there is plenty going cheaper since it seems the Pirates are spending any more money.

Honestly I never seen Jackson as a 12 million a year pitcher but for what he does I understand. I am surprised he would take a 1 year deal from the Red Sox per reports.

Finally NH was asked again about trading McCutchen and he said the deal would have to be "organizational altering"....I understand what he means but it better be!

element1286 · 01-27-2012, 05:36 PM

I don't see many guys at 12 million per year pitchers, but so many get it anyway.

I don't see why he would accept a one year deal, he isn't going to improve his market value anymore than it is right now.

01-24-2012, 12:31 PM	#1
thecrow124 Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Kenosha Posts: 250 Rep Power: 588	Why are the Pirates being so quiet? The GM and owner have said they have money to spend. There are talented players still on the market, that have fallen into the discount category and into our price range. So why haven't we at least heard a rumor that we are talking with their agent, or the player themself? Namely I am talking about Edwin Jackson. The guy is young enough that we could sign him to the 5 years he wants for about 55 million, well within the range he is worth, and still not hurt us in the long run. I just think we should be out there doing something, especially with the prices for these players dropping to the range they seem to have dropped. P.S. I STILL think we should make a legit run at Fielder, pitchers you can find every year, hitters, not so much.

01-24-2012, 04:01 PM	#2
Burgh Sports Rule Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 70 Rep Power: 302	Crow, Fielder is now officially off the market. He signed a 9yr 214M deal with the Tigers. Per ESPN. That deal is Ridiculous! The only reason I believe it happened for him, was because Victor Martinez is out for the yr with a torn ACL. The Tigers could regret that deal Big Time in 3 to 4 yrs? Boras wins again. (Yay!, Sarcasm) As to your other point. I too would like the Bucs to make a significant move or two, to round out the team. I just am starting to think that this organization refuses to spend money. Neal, Frank & Bob, I think anyway, feel that they can do it all with Draft Pks. Neal thinks, IMO, that when the Draft Pks get to Pittsburgh that they will all be Golden & that that, is when we will finally, Win like Magic. Sadly, I think that what this management team does not realize is that, until the Draft Pks get here, that we have an MLB team to worry about? Which, Neal clearly is not. (Worried about) The Pirates strategy is to completely Suck until all Neal's pks arrive. Even if, (Big If?) the Lion's share of the Draft Pks do work out? The Pirates I feel, are still going to have to Significantly upgrade the MLB payroll & Roster to help these kids out & supplement what the young guys are going to give us, production wise, in order for us to compete & eventually become a Championship contender. Sadly, the spending money on the MLB Product part of things, is something that this management team has, as yet, never been willing to do. Until the Pirates show they are willing to spend "Some" money, no matter how many times we draft high, I don't think that we will win a Championship. Very sad thoughts. Burgh. Last edited by Burgh Sports Rule; 01-24-2012 at 04:08 PM.

01-24-2012, 10:26 PM	#5
Darkstone42 Well, Back to Science Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 18,397 Rep Power: 37455	I don't think the Tigers are going to like the contract they gave Fielder very much a few years down the line... I wouldn't mind seeing the Pirates go after Jackson, though. __________________ "The search for truth and knowledge is one of the finest attributes of a man, though often it is most loudly voiced by those who strive for it the least." -Albert Einstein

01-25-2012, 12:29 PM	#10
fordman84 Giant Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Flower Mound, Tx Posts: 5,370 Rep Power: 45890	Word down here in texas, rumor at least, is that Texas has been in talks about Hanrahan. I know we wanted him badly at the last deadline, maybe just keeping lines open for next deadline. I think the story was that he got married here in Texas over the summer, or was here for a wedding or something or other. That came into play because it was at the same hotel that Fielder was staying at while meeting with the Rangers and the players at the Hanrahan wedding spotted Boras and Fielder and that is how it all got out. __________________ Love is like a fart, if you have to force it then it's probably shit.

01-24-2012, 07:53 PM	#3
element1286 Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 618 Rep Power: 1629	Fielder was always going to get that mega-deal, the best players, and Boras clients always do. As for Jackson, I don't think anyone of his caliber should ever be signed for 5 years, to average. Wouldn't mind him for three years, which means the Pirates won't get him.

01-24-2012, 09:36 PM	#4
Illinest Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 343 Rep Power: 584	I don't know what I think about Jackson. If we somehow signed him I probably wouldn't know what to say. Of course there are dollar values that would make me say "good" or "bad" but I can't really understand why he seems to have next to zero interest.

01-25-2012, 09:03 AM	#6
magnumo ESPN Refugee Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Shenandoah Valley, Virginia Posts: 478 Rep Power: 421	According to both Kovacevic and Langosch, the Pirates are "being so quiet" because they're satisfied with the current roster, and/or see no cost/value benefit in adding further. My opinion: Looking at roster changes in aggregate, the team clearly has moved sideways (certainly no significant improvement). Thus, they're betting on improvement from the core of young holdovers (Alvarez, Tabata, Presley, McCutchen, Walker)..... and they're betting on a healthy Bedard and a rotation which will pitch like the first half of 2011 rather than the second half. I hope they're right, but fear that they're suffering from too much wishful thinking. At any rate, the performance of the pitching staff, especially the starting rotation, will determine how the 2012 season plays out for the Pirates. I have no doubt that the team would benefit from adding another reliable starting pitcher and another reliable bat. But apparently NH doesn't see things that way, or he has decided that none of the remaining candidates are worth what it would take to sign them.

01-25-2012, 09:28 PM	#11
element1286 Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 618 Rep Power: 1629	Rangers have a lot to give up as well.....would like to see the Pirates get some value for Hanrahan.

01-26-2012, 08:28 AM	#12
thedddd Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 1,287 Rep Power: 3186	Texas would be a great trading partner.

01-26-2012, 08:37 AM	#13
thedddd Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 1,287 Rep Power: 3186	As for Jackson I am not sure I get the love affair with him? Not saying anyone here has it just curious because I never seen much in him. Doesn't strikeout a lot, gives up a ton of hits, sorry for the price not sure.

01-26-2012, 10:33 AM	#15
Illinest Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 343 Rep Power: 584	I've been trying to figure out Jackson ever since I made that other post and from what I can see it looks like the knock on him is that he 'doesn't know how to pitch'. His stuff is good - he gets lots of swinging strikes - but he doesn't get a lot of strikeouts relative to what you'd expect. I'd say that there's three different possibilities for him 1. That when his stuff starts to fade he'll lose all effectiveness 2. That he'll continue to have his stuff for the near future and put up relatively the same numbers 3. That he'll figure out how to use his stuff better and become the pitcher that he was projected to be. I would also guess that the results that are seen as most likely are closer to the top of the list. From the Pirate's perspective we can't be the team that gets stuck with him for five years, but if Jackson will take a 3 year or a 1 year deal it seems like he'd be a good candidate for us.

01-26-2012, 03:48 PM	#16
thedddd Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 1,287 Rep Power: 3186	Thanks for the input. I am sorry I just don't get wow'ed by the guy or is a pitcher that is great outside being the best available. Crow..I am with you anything is an improvement over the bottom of their rotation and just think players such as Jeff Francis and Chris Young (not sure if finalized but with the Mets) were had on minor league deals.

01-26-2012, 03:50 PM	#17
thedddd Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 1,287 Rep Power: 3186	As for Jackson I read he might take a one year NL deal to get a bigger contract next year. Now if this is his plan that would be great for the Pirates because come trade deadline time he could get a good return.

01-26-2012, 08:57 PM	#18
element1286 Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 618 Rep Power: 1629	IMO, I think they should go in with what they have in the starting rotation unless it is a dramatic upgrade. I'd rather see if Lincoln can pitch, than see if a retread like Francis or Young can still play. Jackson 3 years 36 million would make sense, but wouldn't go much higher, Red Sox are in on him, wouldn't be surprised if he lands there for a reasonable deal.

01-27-2012, 05:36 PM	#20
element1286 Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 618 Rep Power: 1629	I don't see many guys at 12 million per year pitchers, but so many get it anyway. I don't see why he would accept a one year deal, he isn't going to improve his market value anymore than it is right now.